There appears to be an underlying assumption about the value of people seeking euthanasia and the value of people being killed by the State. The pain of the latter group does not appear to be a concern, perhaps, they even seek to induce pain. At least over the recent past it seems a lot of the US's approach to crime is punitive rather than reformative (though this has not always been the case).
We will be looking at all kinds of efforts to turn criminals into "healthy citizens."
What Nitschke stated cannot be excluded, nor can it be with his pods. Even if a leak, as only 100% nitrogen gas will be filling the mask or pod, the murderer will only be breathing 100% nitrogen - oxygen will not be filling the mask. or pod.The pressure will be outward, not inward, as Nitschke knows, IF a leak. Therefore, what Nitschke describes could not happen unless the oxygen pressure in the room exceeds the nitrogen pressure within the mask or pod, which, simply, cannot occur, unless the nitrogen is turned off. You and Nitschke seem, somehow, unaware.
States that have lethal injection consult with both pharmacists and anesthesiologists, just as states do with experts in other areas of state endeavors. It's the norm. Those consultations will be private. You seem unaware.
The Hippocratic Oath forbids both euthanasia and abortion, but not the death penalty You seem unaware.
In today's medical community, that has become the Hypocrisy Oath, as detailed:
Not that I expect more, Dudley, but we both know this is superficial.
That a mask is positive-pressure doesn't rule out the possibility of infiltration. The only way to sincerely believe otherwise is to have never worn one. Moreover, *you* seem unaware of the numerous animal studies showing that nitrogen gas provokes a pain/fear response even when oxygen infiltration can be ruled out.
The first lethal injection protocol survived for more than 30 years based on no more "consultation with an anesthesiologist" than a short phone call with Stanley Deutsch—a "consultation" so meaningless that not even lethal injection's most ardent defender thinks it bears mentioning. (Talking, of course, about your own defense of lethal injection, which only mentions former Oklahoma pathologist Jay Chapman.)
I tend to deal in what's on the record, rather than simply assuming that "private consultations" answer all of my questions in ways that the state and federal prison systems are for some reason unwilling to file in court. Since you seem to believe an undergraduate degree in philosophy qualifies you above physicians in medicine, lawyers in law, and theologians in theology, I'm going to assume you know enough about philosophy to recognize the problem with assuming every unknown will magically turn up in their favor. That said, I still think it's worth noting that I cited an anesthesiologist's recollections on his "private consultations" in the very next piece in this series.
I agree that you have no idea as to private conversations of the states with medical experts. They are constant and ongoing, as with all specialists within all areas of state business, just as I consult with specialists, all the time. It really is the norm. As I stated, you are unaware. Somehow.
Yet, you say you are aware of such "private consultations" See, you must be and are.
I have no such thoughts of omniscience. That was childish of you. Don't do that. Stick to facts and reason.
I consult, fact check and vet, with specialists in all fields that I write about. It is the only way to know if one is getting the knowledge necessary to establish the truth or something close to it.
It is not assumption. The public aspects of this occur, quite often, with medical experts, in medical journals, in media interviews, within legislative and judicial testimony.
All of the effects in the original lethal injection drugs were very well known, for many years, by those in the medical community as with many in legislature, corrections, attorney generals, governors, etc., who got their information from medical experts, just as they were and are aware of the effects with any of the drugs introduced later.
The lethal overdose of those drugs has the exact same effect on humans whether within medical malpractice, suicide or execution.
None of which is unknown, unless to you.
You must not have read what I said, which was "What Nitschke stated cannot be excluded, nor can it be with his pods". Such includes infiltration. The point was pressurized 100% nitrogen gas will not be overcome by non-pressurized oxygen by a small leak in a mask. The only credible fear of a leak is that of nitrogen gas escaping into the room and that fear is very minor, as well, even though the reverend, had to sign a waiver.
I am very aware and have written about the animal studies with regard to nitrogen gas. Those animals are not humans and humans have a different reaction to many things than other animals might.
I think it a given, most humans fear death more than life and that most are fearful of all execution methods, by that fact alone. Evidently, nitrogen hypoxia, to unconsciousness or death, has some minor euphoric effect, which I doubt imposes much, if at all, in an execution.
Both of these review veterinary data
Veterinary Claims a Distortion of Reality: Human Lethal Injection
ProDPinNC: Veterinary Claims a Distortion of Reality: Human Lethal Injection
"The lethal overdose of those drugs has the exact same effects on humans" is so vague a statement as to be meaningless. Yes, killing people kills them. It's whether they notice as they're drowned from the inside that's the question.
In terms that actually mean something, the effects that a particular dose of ANY drug will have on any individual is the subject of the most rigorously studied field in human endeavor—TRIPLY so with sedatives. The idea that we can lay down a regulation how a diverse subject population will react to massive doses of sedatives is preposterous. And I'd imagine the "specialists" you claim to have spoken to would tell you that.
Of course, given that you're still telling people that all lethal injection's "Controversies [are] Resolved" by a piece you wrote about thiopental—which hasn't been used this decade—perhaps I shouldn't expect much of your ability to incorporate new information.
What AB was referring to with "drowned from the inside" is pulmonary edema.
There is no evidence, nor will there be, that any drowning effect could be felt by the murderers, prior to their being unconscious.
There can be slight or major differences with human reactions to the same drugs, as is well known. I have been operated on about 10 times and hospitalized more, and I am not subject to morphine addiction.
However, a lethal overdose of medication is a lethal overdose. Within executions, that is why all of them die. Too obvious?
What AB left out is that there are standard prescriptions, for children and adults, because the vast majority of people will respond, as expected, from that standard prescription.
AB
As I already told and showed AB, my data has been updated to 2024, long prior to our conversation,
I am more than happy to review any additional material that AB may recommend.
There appears to be an underlying assumption about the value of people seeking euthanasia and the value of people being killed by the State. The pain of the latter group does not appear to be a concern, perhaps, they even seek to induce pain. At least over the recent past it seems a lot of the US's approach to crime is punitive rather than reformative (though this has not always been the case).
We will be looking at all kinds of efforts to turn criminals into "healthy citizens."
You seem to be unaware of much.
What Nitschke stated cannot be excluded, nor can it be with his pods. Even if a leak, as only 100% nitrogen gas will be filling the mask or pod, the murderer will only be breathing 100% nitrogen - oxygen will not be filling the mask. or pod.The pressure will be outward, not inward, as Nitschke knows, IF a leak. Therefore, what Nitschke describes could not happen unless the oxygen pressure in the room exceeds the nitrogen pressure within the mask or pod, which, simply, cannot occur, unless the nitrogen is turned off. You and Nitschke seem, somehow, unaware.
States that have lethal injection consult with both pharmacists and anesthesiologists, just as states do with experts in other areas of state endeavors. It's the norm. Those consultations will be private. You seem unaware.
The Hippocratic Oath forbids both euthanasia and abortion, but not the death penalty You seem unaware.
In today's medical community, that has become the Hypocrisy Oath, as detailed:
Read both, inclusive
PHYSICIANS, EXECUTIONS & DO NO HARM
https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2009/10/physicians-state-execution-of-murderers.html
Not that I expect more, Dudley, but we both know this is superficial.
That a mask is positive-pressure doesn't rule out the possibility of infiltration. The only way to sincerely believe otherwise is to have never worn one. Moreover, *you* seem unaware of the numerous animal studies showing that nitrogen gas provokes a pain/fear response even when oxygen infiltration can be ruled out.
The first lethal injection protocol survived for more than 30 years based on no more "consultation with an anesthesiologist" than a short phone call with Stanley Deutsch—a "consultation" so meaningless that not even lethal injection's most ardent defender thinks it bears mentioning. (Talking, of course, about your own defense of lethal injection, which only mentions former Oklahoma pathologist Jay Chapman.)
I tend to deal in what's on the record, rather than simply assuming that "private consultations" answer all of my questions in ways that the state and federal prison systems are for some reason unwilling to file in court. Since you seem to believe an undergraduate degree in philosophy qualifies you above physicians in medicine, lawyers in law, and theologians in theology, I'm going to assume you know enough about philosophy to recognize the problem with assuming every unknown will magically turn up in their favor. That said, I still think it's worth noting that I cited an anesthesiologist's recollections on his "private consultations" in the very next piece in this series.
I agree that you have no idea as to private conversations of the states with medical experts. They are constant and ongoing, as with all specialists within all areas of state business, just as I consult with specialists, all the time. It really is the norm. As I stated, you are unaware. Somehow.
Yet, you say you are aware of such "private consultations" See, you must be and are.
I have no such thoughts of omniscience. That was childish of you. Don't do that. Stick to facts and reason.
I consult, fact check and vet, with specialists in all fields that I write about. It is the only way to know if one is getting the knowledge necessary to establish the truth or something close to it.
It is not assumption. The public aspects of this occur, quite often, with medical experts, in medical journals, in media interviews, within legislative and judicial testimony.
All of the effects in the original lethal injection drugs were very well known, for many years, by those in the medical community as with many in legislature, corrections, attorney generals, governors, etc., who got their information from medical experts, just as they were and are aware of the effects with any of the drugs introduced later.
The lethal overdose of those drugs has the exact same effect on humans whether within medical malpractice, suicide or execution.
None of which is unknown, unless to you.
You must not have read what I said, which was "What Nitschke stated cannot be excluded, nor can it be with his pods". Such includes infiltration. The point was pressurized 100% nitrogen gas will not be overcome by non-pressurized oxygen by a small leak in a mask. The only credible fear of a leak is that of nitrogen gas escaping into the room and that fear is very minor, as well, even though the reverend, had to sign a waiver.
I am very aware and have written about the animal studies with regard to nitrogen gas. Those animals are not humans and humans have a different reaction to many things than other animals might.
I think it a given, most humans fear death more than life and that most are fearful of all execution methods, by that fact alone. Evidently, nitrogen hypoxia, to unconsciousness or death, has some minor euphoric effect, which I doubt imposes much, if at all, in an execution.
Both of these review veterinary data
Veterinary Claims a Distortion of Reality: Human Lethal Injection
ProDPinNC: Veterinary Claims a Distortion of Reality: Human Lethal Injection
Lethal Injection & Nitrogen Hypoxia: Controversies Resolved
ProDPinNC: Lethal Injection & Nitrogen Hypoxia: Controversies Resolved
"The lethal overdose of those drugs has the exact same effects on humans" is so vague a statement as to be meaningless. Yes, killing people kills them. It's whether they notice as they're drowned from the inside that's the question.
In terms that actually mean something, the effects that a particular dose of ANY drug will have on any individual is the subject of the most rigorously studied field in human endeavor—TRIPLY so with sedatives. The idea that we can lay down a regulation how a diverse subject population will react to massive doses of sedatives is preposterous. And I'd imagine the "specialists" you claim to have spoken to would tell you that.
Of course, given that you're still telling people that all lethal injection's "Controversies [are] Resolved" by a piece you wrote about thiopental—which hasn't been used this decade—perhaps I shouldn't expect much of your ability to incorporate new information.
Audience:
What AB was referring to with "drowned from the inside" is pulmonary edema.
There is no evidence, nor will there be, that any drowning effect could be felt by the murderers, prior to their being unconscious.
There can be slight or major differences with human reactions to the same drugs, as is well known. I have been operated on about 10 times and hospitalized more, and I am not subject to morphine addiction.
However, a lethal overdose of medication is a lethal overdose. Within executions, that is why all of them die. Too obvious?
What AB left out is that there are standard prescriptions, for children and adults, because the vast majority of people will respond, as expected, from that standard prescription.
AB
As I already told and showed AB, my data has been updated to 2024, long prior to our conversation,
I am more than happy to review any additional material that AB may recommend.